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Potomac Indian - Completed[]
I've seen the linked video, it shows a postcard with a Potomac Indian and "1930" printed on it. I don't think that is supposed to signify the car is a 1930 model though, it's obviously not a car from that era. I honestly don't know what that's supposed to be implying, or why a box of swag for Mafia DE would have post cards of cars from Mafia II. ReapTheChaos (talk) 15:35, October 4, 2020 (UTC)
Removed statement from trivia section. ReapTheChaos (talk) 11:42, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
Fredo Clemente and Louie Romeo - Closed[]
Not sure what game these two should be categorized under. They're not in any game, and I'm not sure a cigarette card is considered a mention. ReapTheChaos (talk) 09:06, October 8, 2020 (UTC)
Character Positions[]
We need to discuss what positions, if any, each character plays in the two crime families. I know some of them are obvious, but just to make sure we're on the same page I'll list them anyway in case there's other faction or position related questions that need addressing. I'm also starting another section below on former factions.
Tommy Angelo[]
- I don't think he ever served in the position of associate, the game is vague on when exactly he was "made", and maybe it wasn't even a thing back then. I think he started off as a soldato and was promoted to capo at some point between 1933-1935 based on Salieri's remarks in Bon Appétit. ReapTheChaos (talk) 20:05, October 13, 2020 (UTC)
- Salieri says "But since what happened happened I know that a capo needs to talk to his soldiers without some other guy getting in the way." I still don't really understand that statement or how that's referring to Tommy. When Salieri welcomes Tommy to the family, it makes sense that he became a soldato then. Qstlijku (talk) 22:38, October 13, 2020 (UTC)
- First he asked Tommy "So how's business Tom?" Now the part about "since what happened... happened." I have no clue about. It had been almost two years (20 months) since the events of Great Deal, I just assume he was referring to something that took place in that gap of time. But seeing as he asked Tommy how business was going, then went on to say that about a capo needing to be able to talk to his soldiers, he's definitely talking to Tommy. ReapTheChaos (talk) 08:42, October 14, 2020 (UTC)
Sarah Angelo[]
- None. To my knowledge she performs no family related function other than working at the bar. ReapTheChaos (talk) 20:05, October 13, 2020 (UTC)
Lucas Bertone[]
- While only in one chapter, I think sabotaging the race car qualifies him as an associate. He also says that he's willing to do additional work for Salieri. ReapTheChaos (talk) 20:05, October 13, 2020 (UTC)
Frank Colletti[]
- He's the Consigliere. Not sure if the game mentions if he was ever anything else, or part of the Peppone family. That being said, (See the former faction section below) I think he should be listed as formerly with Salieri. Had he been killed in Omerta, then he would have been with them at the time of his death, but as it stands he left the family in 1933 and killed at some point in the game events afterward. ReapTheChaos (talk) 20:05, October 13, 2020 (UTC)
Don Morello[]
- Boss of the Morello family and former capo for Peppone. ReapTheChaos (talk) 20:05, October 13, 2020 (UTC)
Sergio Morello[]
- Underboss to Don Morello. Not sure if he played any role in the Peppone family though. ReapTheChaos (talk) 20:05, October 13, 2020 (UTC)
Paulie Lombardo[]
- Soldato throughout the game. ReapTheChaos (talk) 20:05, October 13, 2020 (UTC)
Ralph[]
- Associate, due to the fact that he's not made (to my knowledge) and he performs illegal activities such as stealing cars and installing fake license plates on them. ReapTheChaos (talk) 20:05, October 13, 2020 (UTC)
Don Salieri[]
- Boss of the Salieri family and former capo for Peppone. ReapTheChaos (talk) 20:05, October 13, 2020 (UTC)
Sam Trapani[]
- Capo throughout the game. ReapTheChaos (talk) 20:05, October 13, 2020 (UTC)
Vincenzo Ricci[]
- Unsure on this one. We have him listed as an associate, but He's Italian, so it stands to reason he would be made, and his cigarette card states that he's Salieri's "war captain", whatever that means. I would say he's at least a soldato, possibly a capo based on the "war captain" remark. Keep in mind, these games don't always follow the traditional definitions of these ranks. Sam is a capo, and at first Tommy and Paulie work under him, yet even after Tommy becomes a capo, they still all work together. ReapTheChaos (talk) 20:05, October 13, 2020 (UTC)
Biff[]
- He seems to be more than an informant. There's mention of him being involved in a stolen shipment of stag flicks as well as some kind of deal with Pailie and some suits. He runs a pawn shop so he may be a fence for the Salierie's. I would say he's an associate. ReapTheChaos (talk) 20:05, October 13, 2020 (UTC)
Bobby[]
- He seems to be friends with Ralph, but his involvement in allowing Tommy to take the race cars would qualify him as an associate in my book. ReapTheChaos (talk) 20:05, October 13, 2020 (UTC)
Al Bertorelli[]
- He pays the Salieri's for protection, unwillingly at that, so he has no illegal involvement and is not in any position within the family. ReapTheChaos (talk) 20:05, October 13, 2020 (UTC)
Carlo[]
- Not sure on this one, he's Salieri's driver, but he also gets involved in other activities. I'm fairly sure he's Italian, so he could be made, though the game never really says. Either soldato or associate, though I'm leaning towards soldato. ReapTheChaos (talk) 20:05, October 13, 2020 (UTC)
- Yeah I think soldato is appropriate. At the end of Molotov Party Paulie says that Carlo's dad was involved in the family back in the day and either mentions or strongly implies that Carlo is part of the family just like Tommy's about to be. Qstlijku (talk) 22:45, October 13, 2020 (UTC)
Joey Crackers[]
- He just a boxer, to my knowledge he wasn't involved in anything illegal, so I would say he has no position in the family. ReapTheChaos (talk) 20:05, October 13, 2020 (UTC)
Howard Davis[]
- It seems to me that he's formed a relationship with the Morello's with his brothel at the Corleone hotel, so associate in their family. ReapTheChaos (talk) 20:05, October 13, 2020 (UTC)
Dino[]
- Likely a soldato with Morello. ReapTheChaos (talk) 20:05, October 13, 2020 (UTC)
The Doctor[]
- Not sure on this one. Was treating patients at your home considered an illegal activity in the 30s? ReapTheChaos (talk) 20:05, October 13, 2020 (UTC)
- After doing a little Googling, it seems most of the laws requiring doctors to report gunshot injuries weren't passed until the late 70s/mid 80s, and it was common for doctors in those days to operate their practice out of their home as well. With that in mind, it would say he's just doing his job as a doctor and wouldn't be an associate. ReapTheChaos (talk) 21:49, October 13, 2020 (UTC)
- Well we have El Greco listed as associate and unaffiliated. It seems like the doctor here regularly treats members of the Salieri family, though the game doesn't really go into details. In Mafia II Joe says "You go to the hospital with a bullet in you, the first thing they do is call the cops". Would you say that applies to the days of Mafia DE as well? Qstlijku (talk) 22:49, October 13, 2020 (UTC)
- Well those laws they vary by state and I couldn't really find exact dates on Illinois or New York. The state where I live didn't pass one until 1989, and the couple others I found were also in the last 30-40 years or so. I would guess that statement in Mafia II is likely anachronistic, but since they mention in in-game I guess it's considered canon to Mafia II. I'm not aware of it being mentioned in DE though, and I highly doubt such a law would have existed back then. Was he mentioned in any mission besides trip to the country? ReapTheChaos (talk) 09:00, October 14, 2020 (UTC)
- He's mentioned in the first mission, Sam says he's calling the doctor for Paulie's leg. In The Death of Art Tommy says there won't be a doctor for Sam this time. Qstlijku (talk) 18:10, October 14, 2020 (UTC)
Mikey Dunne[]
- To my knowledge he's just a race car driver. ReapTheChaos (talk) 20:05, October 13, 2020 (UTC)
Eugene[]
- Another unwilling protection client. ReapTheChaos (talk) 20:05, October 13, 2020 (UTC)
William Gates[]
- I'd say associate. ReapTheChaos (talk) 20:05, October 13, 2020 (UTC)
Billy Ghillotti[]
- Not affiliated with either family. We still need to decide if we should name his gang. ReapTheChaos (talk) 20:05, October 13, 2020 (UTC)
Roberto Ghillotti[]
- Possibly an associate, but I'd need to look further into it. He mentions "our mutual friend" in his letter to the prosecutor, that implies he may be involved with Morello to some extent. ReapTheChaos (talk) 20:05, October 13, 2020 (UTC)
Johnny[]
- No affiliation with either family. ReapTheChaos (talk) 20:05, October 13, 2020 (UTC)
Martin Lichtenberg[]
- Like Dunne, he's just a race car driver, no illegal activity. ReapTheChaos (talk) 20:05, October 13, 2020 (UTC)
Little Tony[]
- The best I can tell he's just an informant, no illegal activities mentioned that I recall, so associate doesn't seem to fit. ReapTheChaos (talk) 20:05, October 13, 2020 (UTC)
- Well he's involved in bringing shipments of bootlegged whiskey to the Salieri's, and based on the conversation in Molotov Party it seems like he's the one who suggested the Copse Farm for the whiskey deal in A Trip to the Country. He also planted the sniper rifle at the prison tower in Election Campaign. Qstlijku (talk) 22:42, October 13, 2020 (UTC)
- I didn't realize he was involved in all that, so do you think he's an actual member of the family? ReapTheChaos (talk) 09:16, October 14, 2020 (UTC)
- Well I haven't seen any evidence that he's a soldato, so to me associate seems reasonable, like Biff. It seems likely that he was originally just part of the whiskey crew, and then he was asked to help out with other things afterwards. Qstlijku (talk) 18:13, October 14, 2020 (UTC)
Lou[]
- Soldato with Morello seems likely. ReapTheChaos (talk) 20:05, October 13, 2020 (UTC)
Luigi Marino[]
- While the game states he was once an enforcer/hit man, as far as this game is concerned he's just a bartender, involved in no illegal activities. So in my opinion, he's not an associate. ReapTheChaos (talk) 20:05, October 13, 2020 (UTC)
Pepe[]
- Just a restaurant owner as far as I can tell. No affiliations. ReapTheChaos (talk) 20:05, October 13, 2020 (UTC)
Don Peppone[]
- Don of the Peppone family, prior to the game events. ReapTheChaos (talk) 20:05, October 13, 2020 (UTC)
Salvatore[]
- He cracks safes, but to my knowledge he's not an actual member of the Salieri family, so just an associate. ReapTheChaos (talk) 20:05, October 13, 2020 (UTC)
Hank Turnbull[]
- Just a politician with no ties to either family that I'm aware of. ReapTheChaos (talk) 20:05, October 13, 2020 (UTC)
Factions and Former Factions[]
This applies to the entire series, not just the new game. Have we ever nailed down what is to be listed in the infobox and what faction/position categories characters should be in? My understanding is the information should be as it stood at the end of the game. This includes position and faction. The same is true of faction categories. Former factions should only be listed if they switch in the course of the game, as with Vito and Joe in Mafia II.
I'm asking because, depending on what are policy is, both Tommy and Frank Colletti could both be viewed as formerly with Salieri by the end of the game, which is going to seem odd to list them as such. Frank left and went to Europe, and at some point Salieri had him killed, it's unclear when though, but he was definitely no longer with them at the time of his death. Now for Tommy, I guess we could consider the epilogue to be after the events of the game, as technically he's killed in Mafia II. ReapTheChaos (talk) 20:28, October 13, 2020 (UTC)
I think I've come up with a decision on the faction and category listings on associates. There are basically two types of associates, those who work directly for the family full time (members), who for whatever reason can't, or have yet to become made men, and those who just do the occasional job or favor for them.
I think if they work for the family as a full time job, then they should list it as their faction and be in that crime family category. If they just do odd work here and there, or get paid to look the other way on things (politicians, police, etc.), then they shouldn't be listed as such.
A good example of this would be Ralph vs Lucas. Both mechanics, but Ralph works full time for Salieri, while Lucas just does the occasional odd job for them. So Ralph would list Salieri as his faction and be in the Salieri Crime Family category, while Lucas would not. Their page history section can still say that they're an associate of a specific crime family, this just applies to the faction section of the infobox and the category, those should be reserved for actual crime family members.
This should apply across all games too. I'm sure there will be a few that we will need to make a judgement call on, but for most characters I think this will work. ReapTheChaos (talk) 21:34, October 22, 2020 (UTC)
Lost Heaven Police Department[]
How much of the police responses listed are dependent on the difficulty and police response settings in the game menu? We need to make sure the page is listing only information that's accurate across all settings, or that we're specifying what response they have for each setting. ReapTheChaos (talk) 12:28, October 21, 2020 (UTC)
Is there a physical location for the police department anywhere? In Mafia, they were located on Central Island next to the art gallery. In DE, there's a building between the art gallery and St. Peter's Docks which looks like it could be a police department, but there's no markings of any kind on or around the building to confirm that. ReapTheChaos (talk) 15:18, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
I think the building near the art gallery is the LHPD Headquarters. I see the "POLICE STATION" words on the top of doors. FerryDiplomat 8167 (talk) 17:43, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
Same building found in the north of Central Island, near the State Prison, and both of them are signed as "POLICE STATION". Maybe both of them are LHPD stations? FerryDiplomat 8167 (talk) 13:23, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
I don't think the LHPD is equipped with BAR, semi-automatic rifles and semi-automatic shotguns, who did this? These weapons don't even appear in the game files. LHPD had marksman for sure, but according my test they just arrived with police car or as part of the barricade guards. I'm pretty sure LHPD DO NOT have a spotter plane too. GarnetBrown (talk)
Mafia: Definitive Edition Page Policy - Completed[]
So now that the game has been out a while, we should further discuss and refine this policy.
First up is something I brought up a few weeks back that never really got settled concerning vehicles. I noticed several trivia entries on the pages stating what vehicle it replaced from the original game. I know we originally agreed that Tommy's cab changing from the Falconer to the Shubert was significant, but maybe we should reconsider that too. There's only a few vehicles that made it into the new game with their names intact, mostly in the Bolt and Schubert/Shubert lines. Everything else is either derived from something in the original, or new to the game. I'm just not sure listing them all on the pages is in keeping with the spirit of the policy, or even useful to the readers.
Now for other matters. The page currently reads that significant changes are defined as:
- Established names of characters, locations, or missions.
- Changes to the location of missions or major landmarks.
- Information that directly contradicts previously established events.
There seems to be more of these occurrences than I had originally realized. I'm not saying we shouldn't list them, but we should maybe refine it some.
The one about Just for Relaxation is one, the mission originally took place at the Lost Heaven Harbor, which was changed to Port of Lost Heaven by WikiaIvan1997. That is a significant change per the criteria listed, but which one is accurate? Looking at the game map for Mafia, there is no listing for Port of Lost Heaven, just Harbor, which I assume is where the port was located.
Other changes we should discuss are ones like the Giuliani Bridge/Giuliano Bridge. Is one letter difference worth mentioning? Then there's the First National Bank, used in Omerta and Moonlighting, now called Grand Imperial Bank. Another is our naming of Tony's bar the Black Cat, which was originally in Little Italy. Carlo's apartment is now in Holbrook instead of Little Italy. The Old Prison is now the State Prison as well as moving slightly. These would all seem to fall under one of the current requirements, either established names, or locations of missions. I'm just not sure if they're worth mentioning of if we should adjust the wording of the policy to exclude them. I'm sure there's others too, I'm just not that familiar with the original game to notice them. ReapTheChaos (talk) 21:50, October 21, 2020 (UTC)
Well the Port of Lost Heaven is the page for the harbor in the first game. I know that game refers to it as the harbor, but the sign says Port of Lost Heaven so I guess that's why the page is named that.
Maybe we should consider not mentioning simple name changes of locations. It seems like there's a lot of those and it doesn't really seem to be in the spirit of the policy. Plus some locations have multiple names used in the game, and if they serve essentially the same purpose I don't think having a different name should be notable. Qstlijku (talk) 22:33, October 21, 2020 (UTC)
So should we remove locations from the "Established names of characters, locations, or missions", or somehow reword it? I think the changes to the neighborhoods that got renamed is significant, but something small like the harbor is probably not. We could replace locations with neighborhoods, or maybe make it something like "major locations". ReapTheChaos (talk) 14:00, October 22, 2020 (UTC)
Yeah we could change it to "major locations". My thinking is that the harbor name change isn't significant because its purpose is essentially the same as in the old game. Qstlijku (talk) 17:12, October 22, 2020 (UTC)
Voice Actors in Mafia: Definitive Edition[]
I went through and matched up our page with the credits as well as IMDb and here's what we're left with:
The credits list three named character we don't have in the named character list, and we don't have pages for them.
- Waitress - Lyndsy Kail
- I assume this is the one from the Intermezzos. If so, I see no reason we shouldn't make a page for her.
- Pilot - Anthony Cistaro
- I have no clue if they're referring to the pilot from Omerta or Crème de la Crème, both are listed as "pilot" in the subtitles. I compared screenshots of them both and they don't appear to be the same pilot. Neither one has much in the way of lines, in Omerta he says "yes sir" and in Crème de la Crème he says "we don't have the speed".
- John - Aaron Wilton
- No clue who this is supposed to be, but IMDb also lists this actor as Border Patrol Agent.
IMDb lists several character names not supported by the official credits, but all these actors are listed in the credits under Voice Over Performance.
- David Boat - Border Patrol Agent
- Ally Johnson - Barbara
- Andrew Morgado - Harold Parker / Shotgunner
- Elaine Ng - Jiao
- Luciano Palermi - Machine Gunner 1 / Little Bill (IMDb Only)
- Stephen Stanton - Llewellyn Greer / Tannoy Announcer
- Shondalia White - Elizabeth
- Michelle Wong - Su
- Annie Wood - Dorothy
- Tyler McKenna - Gangster (IMDb lists this name under gangster, but the official credits has him listed as Additional Cinematic Cast.)
- Michael Schwalbe - Anton Bayfield / Sailor 3 / Street Thug 3
I added Stephen Stanton and Annie Wood to the delete category and added them to the discussion there. As for the rest, I have no clue who any of them are. I thought either Jiao or Su could be Biff's wife, but her name isn't mentioned that I'm aware of, and her subtitles only state "(Speaking Cantonese)". Unless we can figure out who these characters are I suggest we just list the actors names only under the Additional Voices section. ReapTheChaos (talk) 19:37, October 26, 2020 (UTC)
Well there's actually two waitresses in the intermezzos. Looks like the second one who comes in later is referred to as Second Waitress in the subtitles. As for John, I think that's the guy who's talking to Ghillotti on the steamboat when he comes out at the beginning of the cutscene.
Dorothy and Barbara are also from that mission, at the docks there's Terrence talking to his wife Barbara and Dorothy, or Dottie. Later on the boat, she can be seen arguing with her husband about Dorothy before storming off and then crying. There's also a girl at the Corleone Hotel named Dottie/Dorothy who's complaining about the other girls having rooms at the concierge's desk. I think they might be the same person but I'm not quite sure. There might also be an Elizabeth at the hotel, I'd have to check. It's not the woman that Sarah gives bread to in her mission though, that's Juliet.
Little Bill is one of the guys in Great Deal. Not exactly sure who he is or if he even speaks since he's not in the subtitles. As for the others, I haven't seen or heard any of them in the game. I suspect they might be some sort of placeholders that didn't make it to the game, either that or someone just made them up.
Tommy Angelo - Closed[]
Does anyone know of a source for the info that's recently been added to the Early life section of the page? I see some images of post cards and documents were added to the page, but I have no clue where those came from, and they don't seem to include everything in the bio. Qstlijku (talk) 03:11, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
OK I found the source, there's some new notes at Tommy Angelo's house added in the latest update. Qstlijku (talk) 03:41, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
Family and Other Lists[]
I'm proposing a change to what descriptions we list beside names in various lists, this would apply to crime family, regular family, as well as other applicable lists. It always struck me as odd to list characters as deceased when they die in the course of the game, especially ones who die at or near the end. Recently I've seen other distinctions listed as well, such as incarcerated. I also think we should remove things like the dates listed on pages like Associate, as most of them list unknown anyway. These descriptions also get a bit long on some pages when multiple entries are listed, (Morello crime family, Underboss, deceased) and so forth.
What I'm proposing is we just list names and a single description, (mother), (wife), (boss), (soldato), (xxxxx crime family), etc., and only list deceased if they died before the events of the game. Obviously we will still list their death on their character page and infobox. ReapTheChaos (talk) 14:10, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
Detective Norman - Completed[]
So according to this tweet, his full name of Det. John Norman can be found on a card in the game files. Not sure if we should list it on the page, or maybe add it to the trivia section? Qstlijku (talk) 19:55, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
It seems legitimate, I guess we should just list it as his name and upload the image. ReapTheChaos (talk) 10:10, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
Uploaded the image of the card. ReapTheChaos (talk) 01:20, 16 December 2020 (UTC)